Cultivating Human-Centered Leadership: Japanese Management Masterclass Part 2 with Tim Wolput

[00:00:00] Tim Wolput: You need the guest and host both to create a party right at Toyota. They also said their relationship with the customer starts after the person. Uh, the customer buys the car, right? So they’re already anticipating they’re creating the car and then the person buys it. And that’s where the the moment really starts to take shape.

[00:00:19] Katie: Welcome the chain of learning for the links of Leadership in Learning Unite. This is your connection for actionable strategies and practices to empower you. To build a people-centered learning culture, get results, and expand your impact so that you and your team can leave a lasting legacy. I’m your host and fellow learning enthusiast, Katie Anderson.

[00:00:39] We’re jumping back into our masterclass on Japanese culture and leadership and diving into leadership practices that you can apply in your organization. In the previous episode of Chain of Learning, Tim Wolput, Japanologist and Toyota Way management expert, and my partner in leading my Japan leadership experiences.

[00:00:56] I explored how Japan’s Samurai and rice farming culture influenced Japanese leadership practices as well as the differences between Japanese and Western leadership culture. If you haven’t listened in yet, hit pause now and go back to episode 42. In this episode, part two of our conversation, Tim and I discuss concepts from Japanese culture that sometimes in the West are equated with tools or a preconceived idea of a format or template.

[00:01:20] The idea has to take such as kata and obeya, and we get back to the original intention of these practices. Go back to the principles. You’ll hear about the origin of the Japanese tea ceremony, the concept of a moi, and the power of transcending transactional thinking to create long-term success. Tim and I pick up our conversation about learning by doing and walking the path towards perfection with an exploration of how his experience becoming the world.

[00:01:48] Aikido champion in 2005 influenced his understanding of leadership. I. Let’s dive back in.

[00:01:54] Tim Wolput: So Aikido is the, you, you notice it ends on a door, right? Iki door. And do is the, the symbol. It means the concept of, of a road or a path to perfection. So I talked about bushy dough, which is the way of the warrior, and it’s how you know, you, you, you walk this path to an attainable perfection.

[00:02:11] And it’s not about reaching the end goal, it’s about walking the path. And you know, the thing is with, with Journeys, I like arriving at the destination, but you know, being on holiday, it’s like at the end and then it’s finished and it’s gone. Then you look back, you have great memories. But you know, it’s, it’s the, the whole experience, it’s the being in the moment and, and moments repeat.

[00:02:33] Of course, the each, each moment is different. Sometimes it’s hard, sometimes it’s really enjoyable. But that’s, you know, the essence of what life and what, what it means to be human. So it’s, it’s the journey. It’s the walking, it’s the experiencing. And the same thing with, you know, becoming world champion. I, I’m, I’m really happy it’s it, but it’s just one, one moment there.

[00:02:53] And now it’s, it’s 20 years ago, you know, the whole thing and the bonds you create with the people and, and that was such a meaningful thing also, you know, you learn a lot because it’s, it, you know, it’s hard. You have to practice hard. You’re tired, you fail, and you know, the whole thing. It’s, it’s basically, it’s like life on a smaller scale.

[00:03:12] Yeah, my takeaways, you know, what I really cherished was, you know, I’m there, it’s, I’m on the, during the, you know, the finals or the in the world championship and you’re competing. It’s just you and you have your opponent. Right. But you know, to, to be able to do what you do well. It’s not just me or, you know, how, how great I am.

[00:03:32] I had, you know, my teammates, my, my instructors, coaches, you know, my family who’s, you know, doing all sorts of things supporting me. And so I really felt like even though it’s an individual discipline, I’m there, I’m, I’m representing, actually, I’m representing everyone and everything that, you know, was behind me and kind of raised me up to the level that I was, you know, being able to, uh, to do a good job.

[00:03:55] And so the importance of team and people and, you know, providing that support and, and, and lifting you to higher heights. So I didn’t understand it at the time though, but that’s something, uh, a learning that I took. And another interesting thing was that, you know, to be a champion, to be a world champion, even though you win the, the, the tournament, it takes a while to actually become a, a true champion in the sense in the human side of things.

[00:04:21] Of course you, because you’re proud and all the things, and then, and then you start discovering what it means to be there as a champion because people are looking at you, they’re expecting stuff. You’re in constant struggles with, with yourself. Like, oh, what if I fail again? And all these, I mean, you learn all this, it, it be becomes really hard.

[00:04:42] And, uh, you have all these doubts and all, all these things. So at some point I started, you know, complaining a little bit about these things and, you know, I’m tired and all the things. And so one of, uh, one of my good friends, uh, Mr. Aka, and he said to me, Tim, you shouldn’t complain. You should, because a champion doesn’t complain and a champion doesn’t get tired and a champion just does the right thing.

[00:05:07] At that moment, I realized, you know, it, it’s not about, you know, winning the title, it’s and, and becoming a true champion. It’s about, uh, embracing and, and, and breathing and showing what it means to be, you know, a good human being. Skill, like a samurai, right? And so it’s very hard and you can do it. Maybe I can’t do it, uh, most of the time, but that’s, that’s not the point.

[00:05:33] It’s, it’s, it gives this, this, uh, this aim, this, uh, this, this bigger thing that, you know, you are, uh, aiming for. And it’s, you know, to be an example to kind of inspire people and to, and especially now, you know, after getting older to help with, with the things that I have learned to, to help, you know, other people, uh, and aim for, for excellence or whatever it is that they’re aiming for, uh, themselves.

[00:05:54] And that’s kind of the learnings I had from, uh, still having though. But anyway, it’s, it’s embracing the struggles and all the things and all that comes with it, together with all the people that are there. So one interesting thing to put it back to in a management kind of perspective. So we have, in an organization, we often have the, uh, the pyramid, right?

[00:06:14] And you have top management, middle management, and the gemba. So the place where value is created. Usually, and we talk about supportive leadership and all the things. And then, you know, people like to flip the, the, the pyramid, like, like this, right? And so in Japan, they rarely think about that in, in, in that way.

[00:06:32] Because you know, if you flip the pyramid and you have the pyramid kind of balance on, on one point, it, it easily topples, right? So yeah, it goes so and so rather than, so, uh, a he explained it wonderfully. Uh, I think so. He said the reason why he is at the top. It’s not because he’s great, because he’s supported by the gemba and all the people in the organization that, you know, make it so that he’s able to stand there at the top.

[00:06:59] I, I think supportive leadership, it has great points, but it’s also, you know, as a leader, the gratitude and, which is, you know, it, it follows from my experience as, you know, becoming world champion. It’s the gratitude and the understanding that it’s, you are there not because you are so good in yourself.

[00:07:17] It’s because, you know, you are supported by all these people and it’s, it’s, you should take good care of the people, uh, that are supporting you. And so it’s a completely different idea, uh, to, to turn the pyramid upside down because then it becomes really, really heavy. It falls over very easily. So it doesn’t mean anything about, you know, it, it just means you’re at the bottom and you’re doing all the work yourself, rather than, it doesn’t lead to the, the gratitude.

[00:07:46] And so this good relationship building with the people that are helping you be in that position,

[00:07:52] Katie: I hadn’t heard that, uh, before from to Toyota, but it makes a lot of sense and I’ve, I’ve long talked about how, you know, it’s not necessarily servant leadership, which is what, how that pyramid with the point on the bottoms.

[00:08:04] Often described, but rather something they did is really leveraged the hierarchy that’s so strong in Japanese culture, but they shifted the leader’s role from being this command and control type of leader just telling people what to do to this one. That’s like really creating the conditions for people to do their best, um, contribute their ideas, contribute to kaizen be aligned, and so they are at the top.

[00:08:28] Through that hierarchy, but it’s not the command to control top that we’re really used to from the west. And so I really appreciate that description and, and the parallels you’ve made from your experience about martial arts and being a champion to also the path, the way, the path of becoming a leader.

[00:08:43] And it’s hard and their challenges and it can feel lonely as well.

[00:08:47] Tim Wolput: Mm, exactly. So on

[00:08:47] Katie: on this sort of concept of martial arts, you know, one of the foundations of, you know, a lot of Japanese culture comes from that martial arts background, a word. Kata meaning routines and practices, which has become to be known in the West as equivalent of the Toyota Kata that Mike Rother documented.

[00:09:05] Often meaning the routines and practices for, for improvement. But it actually has its routines and practices in so many ways. And I remember a few years ago when you took me to an Aikido dojo, I had to, uh, definitely learn the very, very beginnings of the, of the practice. And by the way, uh, everyone, all the young.

[00:09:23] People who were there were so much looking up to Tim as the former world champion, and he was just so humble and generous with them. It was like a, a true testament to leadership of these, uh, both to me and and to others. But let’s go into the topic of Kata and the importance of kata in Japanese culture.

[00:09:40] And also, you know, we can talk about some of the cultural experiences we include in our program so that people can really understand the origins of Kata and what it means.

[00:09:49] Tim Wolput: So in Japan, they say that you have a general or a king. A leader who, uh, who decides who to fight. And then you have a general who decides, uh, how to fight.

[00:10:00] And so I think it’s, uh, in, in organizations it’s, as you described, there’s a hierarchy, but it’s not who, who is more great. It’s, you know, understanding the different roles. I. And so it’s the king who is going to decide who to fight, but the king is not going to decide how to fight because that’s obviously, he wouldn’t be able to talk any about that in any meaningful way.

[00:10:20] And it’s the degree to which you’re able, you know, to make, I. Something out of the organization, out of the team that is with everyone performing their roles. And it’s, it’s like the, uh, I think is it Aristale who, who used to say, you know, the whole should be bigger than the sum of its, uh, parts, right? So the gestalt kind of idea.

[00:10:40] Anyway, so I thought that’s, uh, that’s, you know, a Japanese way of looking at, uh, in, at hierarchy and understanding hierarchy. It’s about the roles and not so much about the command and control element, uh, in there. So leadership definitely is a, is a, is a huge part. And it’s about, you know, helping people in the end, you know, it to, to, to become better in is this road, right?

[00:11:01] And so that goes back to Japanese martial arts, or not just martial arts. All the disciplines which have the do element, uh, to the side. And I’ve talked about aikido, right? Judo. Ken, and of course at the background you have the calligraphy, which is called shadow, and you have the tea ceremony, which is called Saddo and uh, flower arrangement, which is called Kado, and they all end in door.

[00:11:26] Right? And it’s this road to, uh, to to perfection as, uh, as we’ve talked about, and we’ve talked about two Harry as well, right? So Shu observe the farm. Uh, high is destroy the farm. It literally means, which means that you are going to kind of. Apply it and change it and learn, and then you have the is moving into whole new directions and so.

[00:11:47] Observing the form. Basically it means that, uh, as the master is, uh, is showing you, you are going to do exactly as the, you’re going to try it as the master says it. And so talk about the form. So it means form actually means kata. So the word kata just means it’s the form, uh, of, you know, how it things are going to be done.

[00:12:07] And it’s a very educational tool. So in, in the disciplines I mentioned, so the master we and who learned from, uh, his or her master. It’s, it’s a way to, to, uh, convey knowledge and experience and not just intellectually, but actually rather before the intellect kicks in, to have people go through the motions and physically experience, uh, what needs to be done.

[00:12:32] So it’s. You have this sequence of things that you need to do. And so in, in lean, we would say like standard work, for example. So we do have, you have the process, it’s repeatable, which means that, uh, you don’t have to intellectually understand it, uh, fully. You can just see how it should be done. It’s like you don’t have to be a Michelin chef in order to prepare a certain type of dish.

[00:12:55] If you have the recipe and you have exactly how they are making it, of course you are not going to be able to make it as good the first time you try it. Right. And that’s a big difference in the West where we are intellectual learners. We think when we intellectually understand it, we think we are masters and our educational system is mainly.

[00:13:15] That way. It’s like you, you know, you, it’s just about understanding it and because in sports and all these things and, and craftsmanship, we have similar kind of concepts though. But basically if we, uh, put it into big brackets, I say the West is more of an intellectual tradition and Japan and the East is more of a practical tradition, which means of course, uh, you are going to have like these standards which can be repeated.

[00:13:38] You don’t have to understand. You just do it. And as you are doing it and you repeat it, you get better, and then you start understand, all right, that’s how it works. So it’s learning through experience, learning by doing rather than learning by just cramming knowledge in your head. Right. I. Aikido, it’s the same thing.

[00:13:57] So you start, and you know, the master is saying a bunch of things, you know, I have no idea what, what, uh, what is, what we, what the depth of what he’s, uh, he is talking about. Right? And, and then you just do it as a, as is explained. And then, and then suddenly you start understanding, oh, oh, this isn’t working.

[00:14:16] Exactly. Why am I not able to do it as the master is doing it? So it, it, it, it doesn’t mean you are brainlessly going to do the stuff, right. You’re going to do it, you’re going to fail, and then you’re going to think of, you know, how, how can I get closer to what, what is happening here? So, and then at some points when you, so that’s the cut up so you can repeat, it’s a fixed form, you can repeat it.

[00:14:38] You don’t have to be smart to, uh, to be able to do it. You just have to do it. And then the insides and the, and the wisdom follow after the experience. In the t sermon, you remember, uh, Kimura sensei, who is the, the D master, right? And so the thing is, so she said she’d been doing it like 40 years and even now at moment, she still doesn’t know exactly, you know, for some parts why she’s doing it.

[00:15:03] And then all of a sudden it clicks and said, now I understand it. But then, you know, after a while, then a new insight says, ah, maybe I didn’t understand it completely, as, you know, I understand it right now. So it’s, it’s really, it’s this path of doing and growing. Uh, and, uh, that is. Inherent in the idea of kata as it follows the idea of sharri.

[00:15:25] Of course. And so that’s, uh, I think that’s, you know, the important thing in, uh, in Japanese, uh, style of, of, of learning. And, uh, as a, as a leader, I know of course, uh, you have the Toyota Kaha in Japan. Nobody calls it Toyota Kaha, though it, but there is this idea of sharri. I think the idea of Shri, in fact, uh, but the, it’s just a word of course, though, but in fact it, it is better than the Toyota Kata because I feel like the Toyota Kata, if you stick with Kata, you miss all the good stuff.

[00:15:57] Katie: Well, Mike Arthur would agree with you because the, the Toyota Kata is the framework he created to help people learn the coaching questions and how to go through a problem solving process. Was the shoe part where it’s. Like, just do it this way. He, he encourages people to break it apart now and, and incorporate their own style.

[00:16:15] So learn the foundations and then make it your own. And like Insha Ri, you don’t wanna just get stuck in the shoe element. You actually need to move on that path and grow and develop and learn. And something so powerful and beautiful about the tea ceremony, and I love going with Mr. Yoshino too, is just the, the, the true am that concept of hospitality, but that’s a word that doesn’t even like come close to conveying what is but this true warmth in giving to others in this.

[00:16:42] This one moment together, the ichigo ichie, a concept of how do we really just appreciate the moment and the human interaction together? And it’s just such a beautiful way of, of understanding these concepts that we talk in a very knowledge based, cerebral based way to truly experience and see what that means in practice.

[00:17:01] Tim Wolput: Exactly. And so, you know, I’ve learned so much from, uh, the, uh, so I, I, I work together with the Toyota Management Institute and, uh, so there’s a, as a collective of, uh, people like Mr. Nu have been working for Toyota 40 years or so, and there’s a lot of wisdom there, and I’m picking up so many things. Working with them, uh, together intensively.

[00:17:21] Uh, but, you know, uh, Kim, the tea ceremony, I think she, she taught me the most profound thing that, uh, is necessary when you’re, you know, in business or in life is she said at one point. So we have to get away from the transactional thinking and, you know, in business, you know, uh, so I’m the customer. I pay money and I get something in return.

[00:17:43] And that’s, that’s like the, like the, the 2D kind of, uh. Element of even maybe it’s a one dimension, uh, kind of thing, but two directional anyway, so she said, you get the result and it’s very result focused, but you get nothing more than the result. And she said, if you, if you kind of move, transcend the transactional and understand that what in fact you are doing is that service provider and, uh, and, and, uh, and service enjoyers or, or.

[00:18:10] Customer is, you are creating a moment together. The one can’t exist without the other. And it’s, it’s with, you know, creating this unique, wonderful moment together. That is the, the essence of, uh, Omo. What, which, you know, they translate, uh, most of the time. As, as the art of hospitality, but it’s, you know, you need guest and host both to create a party.

[00:18:31] Right. And it’s, it’s, you know, doing business and, and that’s what the, the, you know, at Toyota they also said there’s a, a great story about that as well though, but it’s, you know, their, their relationship with the customer starts after. Uh, the person, uh, the customer buys the car, right? So they’re already anticipating, they’re creating the car and then the person buys it.

[00:18:51] And that’s, you know, where the, where the, the moment really starts to take shape. And so, talking about one piece flow, that’s, uh, interesting story I heard. So, uh, t Chio and his, uh, assistant, uh, Mr. Suzu, Murra, they were having installing the one piece flow ideas in the, in the factory. And, uh, so you have all these cars within the, the specifications, uh, you know, on each of the cars because many of the cars.

[00:19:18] You know, as, as it is one piece flow, they, they, for them it, they, it started off as efficiency because that was the only way they could actually manage to pull it off. But then as they saw these cars, this lineup of, of cars, and one by one they would make it, they, they would truly feel like one car is one person.

[00:19:36] In fact, it’s like the person was there on the assembly line and they could see like, okay, this person wants to have this and this way. And so for them, one piece flow was not just a technical, mechanical thing, it brought the customer in the line and they said, wow, this is one person who is going to drive with this car.

[00:19:52] And that’s so different from, you know, mass production, where you’re going to work on a general idea of a car for. The customer, uh, in an abstract kind of, uh, idea. And so I think that’s, you know, the essence of the tea ceremony ties in perfectly with the idea of one tea piece flow, not because it’s a smart and efficient way of doing things, but it’s because you are trying to create this moment or anticipating, uh, you know, this moment of taking place by the work that you do.

[00:20:20] In fact. By working, you are aware that you are having an impact on someone, you’re making someone happy through the work that you do. And that’s such a difference from, you know, tayloristic kind of idea where you have a smart, a very smart industrial engineer who is setting up a perfect system and then having the people who dumb jobs, like, and not think about what they’re doing.

[00:20:43] And you know, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve seen what it do, what it creates, and even now. There’s so many companies, like this is not the critic of course, but when I, I, I hear things about Amazon and how, you know, in the dis in the logistic centers and, uh, we try to, even though there’s people working, we are smart and we are building these systems.

[00:21:01] We are trying to get the humans out of the picture and replace them with machines and things. And we are reducing people to machines because, you know, they’re, they’re just there to do stupid stuff and not think about all the things because we think it’ll prevent. Things from going bad, but in the end we end up like a very static mechanism that is, that doesn’t change and leads to energy, drainage and a lot of failures because you know, things are not going to plan, uh, usually.

[00:21:30] So, and that’s the t ceremony. And talking with the kyira sense, who is not the lean specialist store Toyota production specialist. It kind of put everything into this very different perspective. It

[00:21:42] Katie: was beautiful and she’s a beautiful human being. Just her smile and the true just in the moment is so powerful.

[00:21:49] I’ve been to the tea ceremony now three times with with her, and it’s ju I just love it every time. And I was inspired by, as you were talking, Tim, about this concept of, of of Otteni, which I’ve known for a long time, but what Kimura Sensei was saying, and, and I believe that’s why you and I have this.

[00:22:04] Incredible partnership as well is, is that we both believe in that joy and the, all the people who come on the programs. It’s this mutual relationship and this, these bonds that are developed and it’s the one moment in the one meeting, but looking at, at everything together. And it just, there’s, there’s so much energy that’s created there and that’s.

[00:22:23] What people can do in their, their companies too. And we really connect on that, on that human level. And, you know, of course we need to achieve the goals, but really, really looking at like, how do we have that human connection first? Uh, there’s one more topic I wanna explore and we could go on for, for hours.

[00:22:37] The concept of obeya is a really hot topic right now. And obeya the word meaning, you know, a big room, giant room. And you know, going back to my comment in the beginning, in the west, we tend to take things in a very tool-based way. And so I see a lot of. Organizations trying to create what an obeya should be and looking at it from a tool-based side, rather than the deep intention about the visibility and visualization and, and developing people.

[00:23:03] So, um, you have a great YouTube video, which I’ll link to here ’cause like Tim goes into date. Great detail, but let’s talk about the concept of Obeya and its real purpose in developing people. And then tying back to that management concept that we started at.

[00:23:17] Tim Wolput: And so actually that follows quite naturally from the tea ceremony of course, because, you know, the tea ceremony takes place in this room where, uh, you know, people with different roles.

[00:23:26] Come together, uh, the host and the guests, and they all, you know, play their part. And they make it, they make it one unique, uh, moment. And then of course they have like the calligraphy there, the flower arrangement and the whole room. It has this visual, uh, stimuli. To, to guide, uh, the conversation and the learning that is going to take place, the way of the tea.

[00:23:49] And so in fact, obeya, more or less, you know, it’s very similar. You can see the, the essence, uh, right there in the tea ceremony. It’s, it’s a room or it’s a place, it doesn’t even need to be a room with the door. Just a small wink. Uh, if, if, if, if Brad is listening.

[00:24:05] Katie: Oh, yeah. Brad, back from a previous episode.

[00:24:07] Yeah,

[00:24:08] Tim Wolput: yeah. Anyway, so it’s a place people get together. Uh, and so, and they have different roles, uh, but they’re going to, you know, uh, be learning together. They have the visual management, uh, on the walls. It’s like the tea ceremony, but in a, in a, in a, in a, in a different setting, in a different shape. So the people coming together, uh, having, uh, you know, good quality communication and good quality decision making, uh, and of course the visual management is there to guide them so that they’re able to see the facts in real time.

[00:24:39] Interestingly. So in Japan, you know, people hardly ever talk about, uh, obeya. As, as it is. And so in the West, I see now there is a, a small boom going on. Like everyone wants to have an obeya and they talk about, ah, we do obeya and all these things. But, but in seeing from a Japanese point of view, it, it sounds really si silly because it’s what I see in the West people doing there.

[00:25:03] It’s like, you know, uh, like a kitchen table and they spend all that money on the, on, on, on the kitchen table. They spend all that money on the furniture and they never talk about what they’re going to do with the furniture. And so the thing is, you know, on Obeya it’s just like, it’s just like a, a a, a kitchen table.

[00:25:21] It can be, you know, it can be really fancy, but you know, it can also be outdoors. You put like these beer crates and you put, uh, like a, uh, uh, something on top of it and it becomes a table. And it’s not, it’s not about the furniture. It’s about, you know, the people you gather around. It’s about the conversations you have, the great times what you do.

[00:25:39] So it’s what you do in the obeya rather than, you know, the furniture, uh, in itself. And, and so. My feeling is it’s the same thing that, uh, if you look in the history, what happened with Lean and with, and to a certain degree, I mean, the people who are doing Agile, they say, you know, people focused on all these things, but if you truly see what is happening in many companies, it’s the tools, is the methodology and there’s a lot of effort, uh, being put there and somehow, you know, okay, we have this great furniture.

[00:26:09] Now what? And, and then we, you know, it doesn’t, uh, easily go further than, than that thing, so. Obeya basically is, you know, it’s, it’s a, it’s like, you know, it’s a conversation. It is a communication and it’s a decision making and everything, uh, that, that you know, you are going to need or you’re going to add as you go to make it a great party.

[00:26:31] It’s like the tea ceremony, right? It’s the essence is, is getting together and then you can build and you can, you can let it evolve, uh, uh, based on, you know, how you are going to make it great. How you’re going to do great things together. Know the essence of, uh, of Albea. And so I like to tie it in with, you know, with your previous, uh, comments.

[00:26:51] So being human, the human side and, and, and the energy and happiness, et cetera. And I think it ties perfectly with what Toyota, the, one of the, the, the two pillars of the Toyota Way, which is respect for people, right? It says in Japanese n Sancho, which in fact is a respect for humanness, uh, so to speak, but.

[00:27:10] I think Mr. Yoshino, and I think it’s in in your book as well, it’s to hold precious, what it means to be human. And I think that’s such a powerful statement. Uh, and I think it’s if, if, you know, if people go away from this podcast, uh, and they can forget all about all the stuff you know, that, that we talked about, but if they just keep, you know, in the end it’s about finding out what the essence is of being human and to hold precious, what it means to be human.

[00:27:37] And that’s, you know, if you talk about Obey, it’s not the furniture, it’s not, you know, the, you know, in lean value streams or like the, the board or whatever in, in Agile or in Scrum, et cetera. I mean, that. You need that. I mean, that’s great. Uh, but you can, you can kind of build it as you go. But what you, you cannot do without is the people and the human is, and the connection of the people right there.

[00:27:59] Katie: Well, that’s, it’s a powerful way to, uh, to be ending, uh, this conversation. Tim, it’s been. A pleasure having you on chain of learning. I love partnering with you our nearly 10 years of friendship. And every conversation I learn something more and I have a ton of fun, uh, together. So thank you for coming on the show and I can’t wait to see you.

[00:28:19] Um, when I’m in Japan,

[00:28:21] Tim Wolput: same here. Uh, and, uh, so I, I could say a bunch of the same, uh, same things as you, but then of course. It would mean that, uh, so I’m kind of, uh, not giving you the final word, and then it would seem, so I just, you know, let’s, let’s do, as we always do with the, the Say no, I think that summons up the great energy and the, and the, and the vibe and the partnership and all the things.

[00:28:42] So, so we go say, no.

[00:28:48] Katie: There are so many rich insights about leadership in Japanese history and culture that Tim has shared in the past two episodes. Ultimately, as Tim emphasized at the end, leadership is about holding precious what it means to be human. It’s not about the tools or the process improvements. It’s about walking the path, focusing on the process, and doing the right thing.

[00:29:09] One of the most powerful concepts I’ve learned in the past decade, first living in Japan and now hosting global leaders on my immersive Japan leadership experience is the concept of Ichigo ichie. One moment, one, meeting the power of the now appreciating the present and the time we have together now. That moment is something that you and I are sharing here together right now as you’re listening into the podcast.

[00:29:33] The meaning of Ichigo ichie is a sentiment that sums up one of the most important part of my Japan leadership experiences. Sharing unique moments with the global leaders who join me and the Japanese leaders who I have become friends with over the last decade. It’s not just about leadership, learning about Kaizen and people-centered cultures, but it’s about coming together for ourselves as human beings.

[00:29:56] I love all the special moments that happen for each cohort together in Japan, and I would love to host you there as well. There’s so much more that both Tim and I could go into, and this is just a taste of the deep learning that we bring to my Japan leadership experience. I invite you and your leaders to join me on an upcoming cohort.

[00:30:14] If you’re an executive continuous improvement or lean consultant or internal change leader who’s on a mission to create a high performing organization, built on respect for people and continuous learning, please join me. It’s not just a trip to Japan, though it certainly includes a life changing immersive experience.

[00:30:31] It’s the ultimate immersive leadership development experiences for individuals and for teams to revitalize your passion for continuous improvement and deepen your knowledge by learning from doing what it really takes to create an organizational culture of excellence. Learn more and apply today for the next cohort, k bj anderson.com/japan Tripp, and the links are in the show notes.

[00:30:52] Be sure to connect with Tim Wilput on LinkedIn and check out Tim’s videos on YouTube. There are so many great ones that go much deeper into these concepts, including the history of Obeya, and there’s a great pre pandemic adventure that Tim and I had of learning through experience of a Japanese chore standup meeting.

[00:31:09] Many past chain of learning episodes go deeper into the concepts that Tim and I discussed in these episodes as well go back to the beginning, to episode four where I talk about the power of being overdoing, inspired by one of the Japanese companies. That is usually included in my Japan leadership experience.

[00:31:25] Itinerary. Episode 21 with Toyota Leader is Shino, where we talk about the key attributes of leadership. In episode 36 where I go deeper into the Japanese leadership principle of kohi, I’ll put the links to these in the show notes plus many other episodes where I talk with past participants of my Japan leadership program about the experiences that made the most impact on them taking their knowledge to deeper wisdom.

[00:31:48] Be sure to subscribe or follow chain of Learning on your favorite podcast player or YouTube so you never miss an episode and share these two episodes with your colleagues. So we can all strengthen our chain of learning together. Thanks for being a link in my chain of learning today. I’ll see you next time.

[00:32:03] Have a great day.